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Never Stop Driving #136: Autonomous Takedown
I’ve been meaning to check in on the state of driverless cars, and a new video from YouTuber Mark Rober provided the perfect entry point. Rober is the former NASA and Apple engineer who has developed a knack for explaining complex scientific and engineering concepts, garnering an audience of tens of millions along the way. This week, he ingeniously and hilariously illustrated the performance difference between two driver-aided hardware setups: Tesla’s camera-only system against the camera-plus-lidar arrangement used by Lexus.
(Pro tip: Don’t be put off by the first 8 minutes of this video, during which Rober smuggles a lidar sensor onto Disneyland’s Space Mountain to explain the principles of lidar. It’s a hoot and leads logically to the Tesla vs. Lexus smackdown that follows.)
These hardware systems, commonly found in today’s upmarket new cars, are the foundation of future driverless cars. Lidar uses light pulses to measure the distance to an object. It’s like those systems we’ve watched in submarine movies, the main difference being that sonar uses sound to measure distance, while lidar uses light. Lidar units are expensive, which might be why Tesla relies solely on cameras.
I asked Grok, the AI tool owned by Elon Musk, if any other companies rely on just cameras, and it responded, “The vision-only trend is growing, but it remains a minority approach outside of Tesla’s large-scale implementation.” It followed up with, “Most major autonomous vehicle developers, like Waymo and Cruise, still use a combination of cameras, radar, and lidar for redundancy and enhanced perception, especially in challenging conditions.”
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In Rober’s fascinating video, he drove a Tesla, on Autopilot, into a foamboard wall that was covered with fabric printed with a photo that mimicked the road he was traveling on. The on-board computers, relying only on vision-based cameras, were fooled and the Tesla went right through the wall. The Lexus did not.
I’ve watched Rober’s videos for years. My favorites are the ones where he designed and built backyard obstacle courses for squirrels. Watch this one and you will never look at the bushy rodents the same again. Rober’s enthusiasm for science, engineering, and the quirky questions of life—can you swim in Jell-O?—is wonderful. His videos show a hyper-curious, extraordinarily clever guy experimenting rather than a typical YouTuber doing stunts for clicks. Among the thousands of comments on his Tesla/Lexus video, some claimed the test was rigged, but I sure couldn’t detect any obvious flaws.
Indeed, Rober devised brilliantly simple visual tests that showed how each system performed. He also simulated a rainstorm and fog to see if each manufacturer’s system could detect a kid standing in the road. Incredibly, there are no universal regulations or agreed-upon tests governing such matters. Rober is way ahead of federal regulators and his video clearly illustrates what I and others have been saying for years: “Autopilot,” the label Tesla uses for its driver-aid systems, is irresponsible at best.
Other commenters on Rober’s video recognized the extraordinary times we’re in. “Making enemies with Tesla and with Disney with only one video,” one wrote. “This is commitment.” Cue the outrage machine, which is already spinning with Tesla defenders. The New York Post reported on the claims that the video is a hoax. Rober’s no dummy, however, and he likely saw future challenges to his videos.
Meanwhile, Zoox, the Amazon-funded autonomous taxi company, is close to deploying a small fleet in San Francisco. Waymo remains the clear leader and continues operating in Phoenix, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. Progress on autonomous technology remains a slow, expensive endeavor.
I’m reminded of the hype that initially surrounded autonomous technology. I bought into the narrative that driverless cars would be everywhere by now. Investors poured hundreds of billions into research and development. If anyone really knew how hard it would be to develop the technology, they kept quiet, encouraged the PR puffery, and let the investment gold rush in. It turns out the tech is real but was way overpromised.
Which brings to mind a book I’m reading called Poor Charlie’s Almanack: The Essential Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger. It’s a compilation of speeches and talks given by Charlie Munger, who, until he died in 2023, was Warren Buffet’s right-hand man. Munger said the duo avoided investing in tech companies because they instead were biased toward simple businesses and didn’t think they properly understood much that the tech industry peddles. Is AI another gold rush? I got a sense it might be when I learned that ChatGPT hasn’t updated its information since October 2023. I subscribe to the service and when it seemed like the answers I got were old, I asked the age of its database. It replied, “My training includes information up to October 2023.” You’d think it would be current, right?
I turn 55 next month and I wonder if that coincides with my growing cynicism for the tech industry. I enjoy parts of social media like everyone else, but I hate how those platforms gutted the business model of traditional media, where I’ve spent most of my career. Now the major media outlets can’t afford many deep investigations, so they resort to parking journalists in D.C. and endless reporting on the Washington soap opera with ginned-up click-bait headlines. The bologna on social media is not a substitute despite what the tech utopians claim.
I’m dangerously veering into old-guy-ranting-from-his-porch territory, so let’s get back to cars. Here’s this week’s list of material to get you through the weekend. There’s much more available so make sure you sign up for our newsletters.
- 1986 Mitsubishi Starion left for dead. Sigh, I dig those cars.
- McPherson College and its automotive restoration program was featured on CBS Sunday Morning.
- 1978 Lincoln Town Coupé: Gilded Pullman Coach.
- Chasing 200 MPH at Bonneville in a British-American Hybrid.
This Jeep CJ, currently being auctioned on Hagerty Marketplace, would be a terrific summer cruiser.
Have a great weekend!
Larry
P.S.: Your feedback and comments are welcome.
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I’m not a former Apple engineer or anything close to an ingenious experimenter, but technically I use a combination of “Lidar” and “NI” to pilot vehicles around. The version of Lidar I use is where light bounces off of objects and is reflected into my eyes, where the image is digitally transmitted into signals from my brain to my extremities, telling them to turn, brake, accelerate, even scream obscenities as the case demands. As opposed to AI, my NI is called Natural Intelligence, and it is a mixture of learned and experienced facts, with I guess a bit of genetics thrown in. Neither of my self-driving aids are perfect, but apparently neither are any of the car companies’. However, they have served me well for many decades – I have NEVER driven through a wall.
And Larry, don’t worry about old-guy-ranting-from-his-porch territory – I’ve been there for years and it ain’t so bad. Can be quite cathartic, really. And trust me, not committing your life entirely to tech is much, MUCH more fulfilling…and SAFER, apparently. Enjoy your weekend, sir!
Oh, I’m happy to be the old dude on the porch. I just know that makes folks tune out, lol
Being tuned out is the best part: it’s kept me from being punched in the nose due to my ranting many times! 😝
Larry, I agree with you regarding the need for investigative journalism and the annoying and time-wasting nature of clickbait articles. We still have investigative journalism, but it’s done by independent media rather than the legacy media. I think this is for the best when it comes to seeking truth b/c the legacy media “reported” with a left-wing bias and now has become little more than left wing propaganda. Also, with “new media” there can be a multitude of sources, which makes it a lot harder to evil people to hide the truth, although they certainly still try.
I prefer to use my own skills vs something programmed by someone in a lab.
There are situations that just can’t be accounted for. This is why even after all these years we still staff pilots and still put manual controls in space craft.
I have been working on an AI system. When it works it works well but too often the programers have no clue to our wants and needs.
As of now I have vehicles that get false signals. I was hit head on by a lady with a self braking car and a Tesla that could not steer around a dead animal. Hit it right square on the tire.
A most rewarding read, Mr. Webster! Genuinely enjoy this column and count on it for a few minutes of respite every week! For what it’s worth, while in SFO last month on work, I took a few Waymo driverless rides, and it was… glorious! Shockingly smooth, easy, and without issue. There is a place for “autopilot,” just not everywhere.
I’ve seen some of Mark Rober’s videos before. His series of glitter bomb videos on paying back ‘porch pirates’ is hilarious!
I can see Wile E. Coyote painting tunnels on walls and Teslas crashing into them! 😂😂😂
Larry:
One word from a car guy MAGNIFICENT!
Excellent article, Mr Webster. Earlier this week I posted a link to Mr Rober’s video on a model railroad forum, and it’s had a lot of likes. The link was called something like “Tesla Autopilot fails Wile E Coyote test, drives into picture of wall!”
“I’m dangerously veering into old-guy-ranting-from-his-porch territory, so let’s get back to cars.”
Thanks for the laugh.
That was terrific! He made you understand the differences in a simple fun way. Thank you for that.
Keep up the good work, Lar. You make my Friday morning coffee infinitely better – from your porch to mine works fine.
Thanks for reading!
Oh nooooo… you fell for Rober’s schtick.
He didn’t use the latest software, didn’t test it correctly, and generally failed to understand anything of how it works.
It’s been repeated by a number of YouTubers and the Tesla absolutely stops with the latest FSD software rather than years old Autopilot, which is an entirely different piece of code.
All he really proves is “a few years ago, cars using vision might not stop for this!”
It’s actually sad that Larry of all people would fall for this. He spent multiple articles touting Rober’s video and hand-waved the inconsistencies with one sentence about the NYT article.
This could have been a great article about how and why accurate testing is important, which is something Larry may be one of the few people equipped to speak on.
I’m severely disappointed.
Tell us what he got wrong! I mean specifics.
The biggest problem: He didn’t use Full Self-Driving at all, he used Autopilot which is a different piece of software with a totally different feature set. He didn’t use the latest version. It’s like comparing your new car to a 10-year-old Corvette to show you how fast it is.
There are a number of inconsistencies in the video, with it appearing that there were multiple takes edited out and Autopilot disengaging before he went through the wall.
He also said that Full Self-Driving can’t be turned on without setting an address which is totally wrong. He just showed a complete misunderstanding of what the Tesla tech is, how it works, the differences between them, or anything else that would be important for someone actually interested in testing this out.
Fog test used smoke. Problem is small water droplets mess with lidar, smoke the lasers easily go through so not scientific test at all. The rest was ok except no details given such as hardware revisions and software used. Mark was just having some fun. I know I’m giving this way more thought than it deserves, but if you are genuinely curious, than this can help you understand Mark wasn’t trying to be scientific and was just having some fun at Tesla’s expense and some sponsorship money:)
This is a good place to start:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2025/03/17/youtuber-mark-rober-tests-cameras-vs-lidar-and-gets-it-wrong/
I’m not a Tesla apologist, EV evangelist, or even a fan of “autonomous” driving. I just have a disdain for sloppy/lazy journalism.
I like the foam wall painted to look like a continuous roadway. Reminded be of the Saturday morning Roadrunner vs Coyote cartoons!! 🙂
Except there would’ve been a cliff on the other side…
Best cartoon show ever!
Larry, that’s okay to “old man” rant every now and again. What is happening here though isn’t new with the tech sector, it’s been around for as long as man has been. It’s called “marketing hype”. Promising way more than product can possibly offer, and then having that market sector compete to see who can get the closest.
Pick a burgeoning field from the past and you’ll see this model at work. Early adopters are largely the first to get burned, then smaller populations kind of buy in, then are also disappointed. Then “educational” groups come along and try to educate us all on the foibles, and fallacies of said product, then either with enough development time, the product gets close to matching it’s promises, or it dies away. Sound familiar? This is no different.
If you are getting skeptical at 55, just wait until you pass 70. after all, isn’t this why we like our old cars 🚗 😝.
One small correction: old-fashioned maps – although in digital form and updated continuously – are the foundation of automotive autonomy. They provide the base information for things that don’t change often, or don’t become variables often. think in terms of off-ramps, stop lights, railroad crossings, etc.
This frees-up computing power to focus on the kids on bikes and fish-tailing Mustangs leaving the Cars and Coffee on Saturday mornings.