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Piston Slap: When Your Cold Start Lacks “The Touch”
Curtis writes:
Hello Sajeev,
I work very early in the morning and leave my apartment just before six. As it’s been getting really cold here in Utah County, I’ve been thinking about how to best take care of my car for that drive after the cold start. I don’t live far from where I work; the drive is about as long as it takes me to listen to “The Touch” by Stan Bush, or three minutes.
With that short of a drive, I’ve wondered if it’s bad to drive my car on such a cold morning and not get it even close to operating temperature. I drive a 2014 Scion FR-S that I love immensely. I run full-synthetic 0W-20 oil, per factory specification. Should I start my car before I leave and give it time to warm up, or is there no harm in such a short drive?
Sajeev answers:
Wow, Curtis! That is a fantastic song to measure oil temperatures with! But since you have a three-minute commute in Utah County, I’d prefer we discuss this issue with more appropriate background music.
I know making Jazz-Fusion references in a car advice column is a pretty terrible idea, but the more people that hear the genius of Billy Cobham for themselves, the better.
Speaking of drumming, the percussive motion of an internal combustion engine needs to warm up as quickly as possible in these driving conditions. To answer your question specifically, there is damage done when idling a cold engine and it can be worse than just driving on cold oil to your destination.
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I am sure it will get even colder where you live, but the pumping viscosity of SAE 0W-20 oil is pretty good at temperatures well below 0°F, and synthetic oils generally flow better than regular oils as the temperatures get lower. Pumping viscosity is a fascinating concept I would like to discuss further, but we neither have applicable data for Toyota’s 4U-GSE motor, nor the bandwidth to discuss it here on Piston Slap.
So instead, let’s suggest that you (via oil type and weight) are making the best of a frigidly, friction-intensive commute to work. Perhaps the motor will warm more following the cold start if you drive to work with a little more engine load, like driving in 3rd gear instead of 4th. Don’t scream at redline in 1st or 2nd gear, just pick a gear that’s one step lower, and see if it moves the temperature needle. If the FR-S has an oil temperature readout in its digital gauge cluster (which I think it does), that would be ideal in this experiment.
In preparation for this article, I tried something similar, but in a highly unscientific manner. It got bitterly cold here in Houston, TX this week, and instead of loping along in 4th gear on the main road outside my neighborhood, I did it in 3rd. The temperature gauge did creep up at a faster clip, and heat came into the cabin quicker. I did this in my 2011 Ford Ranger, which has no oil temperature gauge, much less an accurate digital readout for the coolant temperature. (Oil generally takes longer to warm up than coolant, by the way.)
I’d also like to think that installing a universal engine block heater could get the oil temps up much quicker, but there’s no easy answer with a commute this short. Since you seem to love this car, I would definitely try an engine block heater. And try using a lower gear on your commute to work.
Perhaps if you really love this FR-S, finding alternative transportation when it’s really cold outside is best, but even I think that’s a bridge too far. What say you, Hagerty Community?
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Had some mornings lately where it was -11F before factoring in the wind chill. Whether good or not, idling the car until the defrost is actually clearing the window is kind of a safety move a person should be making.
If you have 1 vehicle, well drive it until you use it up. At the same time, don’t expect it to last long and look great unless you have perfect conditions to do this (weather, storage and how you maintain it).
The cheap winter beater is harder to pull off in the last 10+ years, but the concept remains sound. Cold starts pale in comparison to those of us facing brine solution on the roads. Stuff eats bridges from the inside out.
Vespa, snow tires, electric vest.
That could work
Most cars warm up fast anymore to meet emissions. They will reach operating temp often in about a mile.
The real concern is oil temps to burn off moisture and other contaminants.
Synthetic helps as does viscosity. But operating temps with oil is the main concern. Some cars give this reading sone not. I would just change the oil earlier to make sure you get the things that don’t burn off out of the engine.
Don’t over think this.
Note Turbo cars oil will get warmer faster.
That is a good point. I have access to a shop and oil whenever I go home to AZ, so I shoot for oil changes every 3000 miles just because it’s cheap and easy for me.
Thanks for the Billy Cobham shout-out! I’ve been a fan since his Mahavishnu days.
A fellow-drummer, I even got to meet him on his 60th birthday.
Oh yeah, some good auto advice too!
A drummer reads Piston Slap? I might have to make more references like this!
Ba dum tish!
Someone take Gary’s drumsticks away from him, willya? 😁
not sure, but from his ID, he might not be “a drummer”, but instead “THE drummer”(?)👍
That Carmine? Wow, Sajeev has famous fans!
Oh wow, oh wow…
Sorry to disappoint folks, but no, I’m not THAT Carmine.
We share a few similarities, (Italian heritage, obviously,) but I also have the same Ludwig Drum-kit he once endorsed: the huge and impressive OctaPlus set. Mine’s for sale, if anyone’s interested.
As a drummer, I’ve played a good number of styles, though my favourite is still high-energy rock/Prog-rock.
I played in about a half-dozen original band, along with much session/studio work. One band sample:
http://www.soundclick.com/ironwill
What about short diesel drives Sajeev? I just backed my ice cold F350 diesel out of the garage to retrieve snowmobiles. I’ve done that about three times in the past month in 10-20 degree temps. Is it ok to start back up and shut off like a gas car? Love Billy Cobham–he was an early discoverer of Tommy Bolin, the guitar great that was gone too soon. The jazz fusion ‘era’ was wonderful.
Off hand I don’t know of any issues unique to diesels: the two problems of engine wear when cold and oil not burning off moisture/contaminants. Do what ya gotta do, just minimize the time cold oil is circulating.
I didn’t know Cobham worked with Bolin, but I guess the era of the studio musician would make that happen. BTW, there is a strong UK Jazz fusion scene right now, a lot of parallels to the good old days of the early 1970s. Spotify has opened up this scene for me, it’s pretty amazing.
Musical tangents: in 1974, Deep Purple released “Burn”, whose title track was adapted from George Gershwin’s “Fascinatin’ Rhythm”.
The following year, Bolin was drafted into DP, and he contributed a piece entitled “”Owed to G”, which was a tribute to George Gershwin.
Now all we need is an Ira Gershwin tribute from a famous ’70’s rocker.
“UK Jazz fusion”, Sajeev?…
Check out 1978’s debut of “UK”; a bona-fide prog supergroup — sort of a ’70’s King Crimson with Allan Holdsworth in place of Fripp.
It’s one of my “desert island must-haves”.
Sorry I couldn’t find a suitable automotive item to connect these…
I used to listen to Deep Purple on the 8-track player in my ’56 Bel Air as I cruised downtown Boise, Idaho on a Friday night – there ya go, audiobycarmine, an automotive connection for you! 😉
Thanks!
And the best song would be the opening track on “Machine Head”.
no doubt one of the best road tunes of all time, followed on my list by ‘Red Barchetta’ (with another great drummer)! – but in the cassette era, not 8-track…
speaking of ‘eras’ – when I saw the title of this article, I somewhat expected it to be about the finesse or ‘touch’ involved in the ritual of starting old classic carbureted cars – the magic orchestration of gas pedal, choke, and cranking (and sometimes ether) required to wake up a long slumbering cold engine…some of the bygone automotive ‘character’ that I suspect isn’t missed all that much…
Short trips like that aren’t great and tend to invite moisture into the engine and exhaust. The use of a full synthetic doesn’t absorb as much water as conventional oil but that doesn’t mean it is completely unaffected. Letting the engine warm up doesn’t really help since the oil won’t come up to temp when temps are that low. Engine oil takes longer to get up to normal operating temp than does the coolant. Based on looking at the oil and coolant temps with a scan tool on my vehicles that do report oil temp it can take 10-20 min of sustained driving after the coolant reaches its normal operating temp, depending on ambient temp and load. I’d recommend taking it on a 30-40 min drive at least once a week to boil out any moisture in the oils and exhaust.
Thanks for the tip! I do try and get out and go somewhere far as often as occasion permits, mostly because I love driving my car, but now I have another good reason to do that :).
I think that the suggestion of a block heater makes some sense in those particular conditions.
My parents’ 1991 Toyota Previa would automatically lock out the Overdrive on the Automatic Transmission when the engine was cold. This used to drive my Dad crazy, as my Mom would complain that the engine was “loud” when you sat on top of it, like in that car, you could hear it.
It never seemed to hurt the van; it lived a very long life with us.
Three minutes?? Walk to work
Generally speaking, a 3 minute walk to work shouldn’t be difficult for anyone in reasonable health, every single day, hot or cold, rain or sun; better for the heart, and less torture for any engine.
Then, you’ll have another reason to look forward to the weekend, to anticipate/appreciate the treat of turning the key (pushing the button?), and letting out the clutch.
To any who advise warm-ups aren’t necessary for ‘modern’ fuel-injected, synthetic oil engines, keep in mind, automatic transmissions also prefer to circulate warmed fluid.
If winter conditions make it too treacherous to walk, it will be too treacherous to drive, so you take a vacation day, and don’t be another victim for the overworked 1st responders.
If you live in a neighborhood similar to mine, it would take a challenging 15-minute walk just to escape the dangers of avoiding half-asleep, distracted commuters via a dark, hilly, winding road with no shoulder and deep ditches.
THIS!
Absolutely! Spend some money on proper winter gear.
Take the long way to work and enjoy the car 🙂
You know, that’s the right answer!
This is why you ask, “What say you, Hagerty Community?” in each Piston Slap column, eh, Sajeev? Looking for that perfect response, the one that has eluded you while slurping your Chai-in-Yeti while navigating those Houston freeways (the picture of which still haunts my dreams – thankyewverymuch!)…
I learned many years ago that spending more time listening to others improves my own words. And since 2009, Piston Slap has personally helped me with this!
Advice from the Great White North:
You’re using synthetic 0w-20 so don’t worry about engine wear. Just don’t rev the crap out of it until it warms up (and do the weekly 30 minute rip). I’ve been doing that for years. My Solara V6 has almost 400k miles on it and it’s a lot colder here. No block heater.
Advice from the Great White North:
You’re using synthetic 0w-20 so don’t worry about engine wear. Just don’t rev the crap out of it until it warms up cree (and do the weekly 30 minute rip). I’ve been doing that for years. My Solara V6 has almost 400k miles on it and it’s a lot colder here. No block heater.
Thanks for the advice Sajeev and the Bolin add in Mr Audio!!! Have all of those tracks…a compilation called “The Ultimate” has all of Bolin’s career from a bar band called Zephyr he was with in Denver to all the jazz, Deep Purple and his own excellent two studio albums. What a talent. But too much Post Toastee…..gone before my 19th bday.
Wow, another Zephyr fan. That makes two of us. 🙂
I have heard the worst thing for longevity is temperature cycling. While there may be some moisture and carbon buildup impacts to not getting all the way up to temp, you may actually be reaping some benefits. Personally, I would take Sajeev’s advice and run it in a higher gear. I would also ‘blow the carbon out of it’ on the weekends. I’m in a similar boat in that my commute is about a mid-length Yes song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHLPOUCaMtY
“Blowing the carbon out” is something my dad did 65 years ago. Is that still a thing?
Starting the car and giving it a minute or two before beginning to drive is a good thing to do. The whole losing a higher gear to get the engine temp up faster is also good advice. My F150 sits outside since the garage is already full, I start it, let it run till the high idle drops to normal, the just drive it gently until it gets up to temp. The select shift feature allows me to lock out whatever gears I don’t want, and the trans temp display and gauge lets me know when things are at optimal temperature.